Yes, I thought it an interesting video because it is so rare to see young people for & against medical transition brought together for discussion. The arguments for transition are familiar & formulaic & we see hesitation on the part of the detransitioner to engage forcefully. When I first began reporting on gender clinics it quickly became obvious that there were serious concerns. The arguments in favour of transition seemed superficial or misleading but I kept listening because at that stage, it was possible there were good arguments which I had to be exposed to. To me, this video confirms my feeling that the pro transition arguments don’t get any better. It would different if a biological marker for serious gender dysphoria were found.
gender dysphoria is several things...pregay for some kids, related to trauma for others or being on the spectrum (detransitioner studies) or serious anxiety etc...or being related to some sexual fetish for others...
The evidence is still lacking that medical transition is likely to help someone even if they are found to have gender dysphoria that might be likely to persist, also (and nowadays this is muddied because there is enormous stigma if one's gender dysphoria/trans-identification is temporary, or so they report, and Reuters wrote it up among others).
I still find it unfortunate that many people don’t grasp that part of this environment of concealment is active suppression of information about children being coerced by adults into wildly inappropriate sexual behavior. 1) they hear from friends 2) go online and “chat” with “influencers” 3) coerced and encouraged to new sexual behavior, 4) mandate that adults not reveal any of this to parents under the auspices of “privacy”. If a child suddenly started to wear sexually suggestive clothing at school because a friend and then an adult had encouraged them to do so, there would be an explosion. But when sexually suggestive behavior and clothing is the opposite sex, it gets a pass. Nonsense. When I grew up as a gay child, it was had for me to believe heterosexual sex occurred because it was completely uninteresting to me. Likewise it’s often the case that people find it hard to believe gay sex occurs because it’s not interesting to them. There are a zillion sexual kinks and fantasizes. key here is that most people don’t grasp that coercing or forcing children into transvestism or transsexual behavior is a specific sexual fantasy for a small set of people, and it’s not benign. The internet has “rule 34” - google if curious. These children are being targeted by influencers as part of a fetish, it is enabled by adults around the children, and when the coercion fantasy stops they are abandoned.
It’s happening under cloak of “authentic identity”—an identity supposedly at risk of suicide without validation. Hence the difficulty of questioning it.
Imagine that a teacher has taught for 50 years. It is a 50/50 chance that they have ever met a child who later is transsexual. It’s that rare.
If a child has unusual sexual behavior it’s most likely that they are gay or being coerced.
Well, that’s the game. If you were to read the literature of adults exploiting children sexually online, there are a variety of threats arrayed to maintain the exploitation. An extremely common one is threat to “tell parents”. Consider the following issues I found online discussing sexually exploited children, highlighted to parents as red flags:
- Unexplained relationships with older people
- A change in the use of words/language the child uses
- Showing sexual behaviours which is not in line with their age/stage of development
- Changes in their online habits – spending more/less time online, only being online in private
----
Based on the prevalence of stable transsexualism in adults as 68 / 100,000 adults the chance that a child who has unusual sexual behavior in school is transsexual is so vanishingly small that the fact that the child is gay or being coerced is into behaviors is thousands of time more likely. Each year on average 150 kids graduate high school in the US. The chance that one of them is transsexual is 0.01% - you’d have to meet all the students from hundreds if not thousands of school classes before you would meet a child who may identify as transsexual at some time in their lifetimes.
Imagine that a teacher has taught for 50 years. It is a 50/50 chance that they have met a child who later is transsexual.
On average 150 kids graduate -a- high school. I mistyped - 3m kids 16-24 graduated, around 24,000 high schools... about 200 will identify as trans in their life... 200 spread over 24,000 schools. Double it or triple the number it doesn’t matter. In any school grade you’re very unlikely to ever encounter a child who will identify as trans.
Something similar which is not generally well known is that there are small groups of men into "circumfetishism". They are generally called circumfetishs, or circumsexuals, some of whom work very hard to encourage circumcision of infants. So I can easily believe a similar thing happens with trans stuff.
Gay men had/have a “hanky code” which uses colors and patterns of a hanky in the back pocket to signal interests. I was challenged 30 years ago to write a guide, and had to research to figure out some of the more exotic “codes”, and to figure out how they could possibly be enjoyable. Led me of course to Richard Freiherr von Krafft-Ebing and “Psychopathia Sexualis” from 1886, and to reading semi-secret online troves of pornographic fantasy literature.
You’re point on circumcision is perfect. It’s impossible to me imagine that people would get their jollies by advocating infant circumcision, but it’s only one of a variety of ways people derive pleasure entirely by manipulating others sexually, however indirectly. Child and Adult genital mutilation has an extremely long unfortunate (shudder) history.
Bernard, I have listened to maybe 25% of the video and I've heard the following:
1. One of the individual who is trans-ed hints strongly that without the transition/medication, suicide would have been their fate. Tavistock, I believe, received 15,000 referrals from 2011 to 2020, meaning people on waiting lists/in treament. 4 are known/suspected to have actually committed suicide, 2 in treatment 2 in waiting lists. What are the chances that it just so happen the one of the interviewees would have met the same fate as one of the four.
2. I hear that "all medical associations" are in agreement about efficacy "gender affirming care". Yet in the US it is 3 organizations: American Pediatric Assoc, American Endocrine Society, and WPATH which actually are primary here, and the rest hum along. And we know at the level that WPATH operates.
3. One person states at length about puberty blockers being reversible and giving youngsters "time to think".
I just find it interesting that the interlocutor does not make any comments about those statements...and there were others, but I just stuck to the above.
1. Evidence review quoted in open letter to WSJ by 21 international clinicians/experts to president of Endocrine Society found that no way to tell how suicide risk impacted by medical intervention, in addition to what you quoted.
2. The peer reviewed investigative report by J. Block (Gender Dysphoria is Rising and So is Professional Disagreement) and the Editor's choice essay by Abbasi to go with it covers the WPATH, AAP and Endocrine Society recommendations quite well (I won't call them guidelines, her article explains what that name has standards which are maybe not met by these organizations).
Exactly: "“A student who announces the desire to be publicly known in school by a new name, gender, or pronoun and is referred to by teachers and students and others by said new name, gender, or pronoun, can hardly be said to have a reasonable expectation of privacy or expect non-disclosure.” "
Basically everyone is to know but the parents....which is insane. As if the young person should automatically not trust their parents? If a teacher suspects abuse if a young person should come home with a bad grade or saying they have gender dysphoria or anything...they should report the parent to CPS. But this charade of making total fools of the parents in front of their child, colluding with the child, is what predators do. Schools should not.
I doubt it. The 95% rate of sex dysphoria in children resolving to being gay lesbian at puberty is _virtually identical_ to the ratio of gays and lesbians in adult population to transsexuals, which was striking to me. When you have multiple completely independent samples (decades old studies of stable transsexual prevalence, gay/lesbian prevalence, modern dysphoria resolution) which have stable ratios, it’s worth taking note: as transsexualism and homosexuality is more accepted, the prevalence ratio is unchanged. So still, if transsexual prevalence doubles, triples, homosexuality would also double, triple. But it hasn’t as far as I can tell.
So, it would be unlikely for a teacher in their entire career to meet such a rare person, a child who is transsexual as an adult.
There are perhaps 200 children in this year’s US graduating class who will go on to be that adult transsexual.
Yes, I thought it an interesting video because it is so rare to see young people for & against medical transition brought together for discussion. The arguments for transition are familiar & formulaic & we see hesitation on the part of the detransitioner to engage forcefully. When I first began reporting on gender clinics it quickly became obvious that there were serious concerns. The arguments in favour of transition seemed superficial or misleading but I kept listening because at that stage, it was possible there were good arguments which I had to be exposed to. To me, this video confirms my feeling that the pro transition arguments don’t get any better. It would different if a biological marker for serious gender dysphoria were found.
.. had YET to be exposed to
gender dysphoria is several things...pregay for some kids, related to trauma for others or being on the spectrum (detransitioner studies) or serious anxiety etc...or being related to some sexual fetish for others...
The evidence is still lacking that medical transition is likely to help someone even if they are found to have gender dysphoria that might be likely to persist, also (and nowadays this is muddied because there is enormous stigma if one's gender dysphoria/trans-identification is temporary, or so they report, and Reuters wrote it up among others).
The policy in Victoria is extraordinary.
I still find it unfortunate that many people don’t grasp that part of this environment of concealment is active suppression of information about children being coerced by adults into wildly inappropriate sexual behavior. 1) they hear from friends 2) go online and “chat” with “influencers” 3) coerced and encouraged to new sexual behavior, 4) mandate that adults not reveal any of this to parents under the auspices of “privacy”. If a child suddenly started to wear sexually suggestive clothing at school because a friend and then an adult had encouraged them to do so, there would be an explosion. But when sexually suggestive behavior and clothing is the opposite sex, it gets a pass. Nonsense. When I grew up as a gay child, it was had for me to believe heterosexual sex occurred because it was completely uninteresting to me. Likewise it’s often the case that people find it hard to believe gay sex occurs because it’s not interesting to them. There are a zillion sexual kinks and fantasizes. key here is that most people don’t grasp that coercing or forcing children into transvestism or transsexual behavior is a specific sexual fantasy for a small set of people, and it’s not benign. The internet has “rule 34” - google if curious. These children are being targeted by influencers as part of a fetish, it is enabled by adults around the children, and when the coercion fantasy stops they are abandoned.
It’s happening under cloak of “authentic identity”—an identity supposedly at risk of suicide without validation. Hence the difficulty of questioning it.
Imagine that a teacher has taught for 50 years. It is a 50/50 chance that they have ever met a child who later is transsexual. It’s that rare.
If a child has unusual sexual behavior it’s most likely that they are gay or being coerced.
Well, that’s the game. If you were to read the literature of adults exploiting children sexually online, there are a variety of threats arrayed to maintain the exploitation. An extremely common one is threat to “tell parents”. Consider the following issues I found online discussing sexually exploited children, highlighted to parents as red flags:
- Unexplained relationships with older people
- A change in the use of words/language the child uses
- Showing sexual behaviours which is not in line with their age/stage of development
- Changes in their online habits – spending more/less time online, only being online in private
----
Based on the prevalence of stable transsexualism in adults as 68 / 100,000 adults the chance that a child who has unusual sexual behavior in school is transsexual is so vanishingly small that the fact that the child is gay or being coerced is into behaviors is thousands of time more likely. Each year on average 150 kids graduate high school in the US. The chance that one of them is transsexual is 0.01% - you’d have to meet all the students from hundreds if not thousands of school classes before you would meet a child who may identify as transsexual at some time in their lifetimes.
Imagine that a teacher has taught for 50 years. It is a 50/50 chance that they have met a child who later is transsexual.
This is not discussed or reasoned.
But historic rates for transsexuals may bear no relation to the teenagers now being influenced online.
On average 150 kids graduate -a- high school. I mistyped - 3m kids 16-24 graduated, around 24,000 high schools... about 200 will identify as trans in their life... 200 spread over 24,000 schools. Double it or triple the number it doesn’t matter. In any school grade you’re very unlikely to ever encounter a child who will identify as trans.
Something similar which is not generally well known is that there are small groups of men into "circumfetishism". They are generally called circumfetishs, or circumsexuals, some of whom work very hard to encourage circumcision of infants. So I can easily believe a similar thing happens with trans stuff.
Gay men had/have a “hanky code” which uses colors and patterns of a hanky in the back pocket to signal interests. I was challenged 30 years ago to write a guide, and had to research to figure out some of the more exotic “codes”, and to figure out how they could possibly be enjoyable. Led me of course to Richard Freiherr von Krafft-Ebing and “Psychopathia Sexualis” from 1886, and to reading semi-secret online troves of pornographic fantasy literature.
You’re point on circumcision is perfect. It’s impossible to me imagine that people would get their jollies by advocating infant circumcision, but it’s only one of a variety of ways people derive pleasure entirely by manipulating others sexually, however indirectly. Child and Adult genital mutilation has an extremely long unfortunate (shudder) history.
It’s not the same thing but we get ever higher percentages of young people identifying as “LGBTQ”.
Bernard, I have listened to maybe 25% of the video and I've heard the following:
1. One of the individual who is trans-ed hints strongly that without the transition/medication, suicide would have been their fate. Tavistock, I believe, received 15,000 referrals from 2011 to 2020, meaning people on waiting lists/in treament. 4 are known/suspected to have actually committed suicide, 2 in treatment 2 in waiting lists. What are the chances that it just so happen the one of the interviewees would have met the same fate as one of the four.
2. I hear that "all medical associations" are in agreement about efficacy "gender affirming care". Yet in the US it is 3 organizations: American Pediatric Assoc, American Endocrine Society, and WPATH which actually are primary here, and the rest hum along. And we know at the level that WPATH operates.
3. One person states at length about puberty blockers being reversible and giving youngsters "time to think".
I just find it interesting that the interlocutor does not make any comments about those statements...and there were others, but I just stuck to the above.
1. Evidence review quoted in open letter to WSJ by 21 international clinicians/experts to president of Endocrine Society found that no way to tell how suicide risk impacted by medical intervention, in addition to what you quoted.
2. The peer reviewed investigative report by J. Block (Gender Dysphoria is Rising and So is Professional Disagreement) and the Editor's choice essay by Abbasi to go with it covers the WPATH, AAP and Endocrine Society recommendations quite well (I won't call them guidelines, her article explains what that name has standards which are maybe not met by these organizations).
3. Time to think....sigh...yes, great book...
The analogy of the lunatics running the asylum is here and now!
Exactly: "“A student who announces the desire to be publicly known in school by a new name, gender, or pronoun and is referred to by teachers and students and others by said new name, gender, or pronoun, can hardly be said to have a reasonable expectation of privacy or expect non-disclosure.” "
Basically everyone is to know but the parents....which is insane. As if the young person should automatically not trust their parents? If a teacher suspects abuse if a young person should come home with a bad grade or saying they have gender dysphoria or anything...they should report the parent to CPS. But this charade of making total fools of the parents in front of their child, colluding with the child, is what predators do. Schools should not.
I doubt it. The 95% rate of sex dysphoria in children resolving to being gay lesbian at puberty is _virtually identical_ to the ratio of gays and lesbians in adult population to transsexuals, which was striking to me. When you have multiple completely independent samples (decades old studies of stable transsexual prevalence, gay/lesbian prevalence, modern dysphoria resolution) which have stable ratios, it’s worth taking note: as transsexualism and homosexuality is more accepted, the prevalence ratio is unchanged. So still, if transsexual prevalence doubles, triples, homosexuality would also double, triple. But it hasn’t as far as I can tell.
So, it would be unlikely for a teacher in their entire career to meet such a rare person, a child who is transsexual as an adult.
There are perhaps 200 children in this year’s US graduating class who will go on to be that adult transsexual.